Skinny Bitch, PETA, and Our Fear of Dissent
Image by our beloved Kelly G.
I’ve never watched The Biggest Loser. I’ve not read much about it either. In passing, I’ve seen mentions of disconcerting levels of beratement, shaming, and the like (and from the moment it premiered, I’ve absolutely, completely hated the name). I’m also aware that many people consider it inspiring and transforming for participants and viewers. But I can’t comment much on the show, from either angle, without having ever seen it or read details about it; I just don’t have the requisite familiarity.
I’ve also not read Skinny Bitch in full. When someone to whom I was close read it a few years ago, she assured me I’d hate it and read me a few select passages to prove it. And everything I’ve read and heard about and from it since then, including skimming and reading selections, has confirmed my complete disinterest in putting myself through the cover-to-cover experience. But I do feel comfortable commenting on Skinny Bitch, having read (too) much about it, discussed it (too) much with fellow women and vegans, and read (too) many excerpts straight from it: whatever the intentions behind it, its approach still infuriates me, as it infuriates and disgusts many in the vegan/animal rights movement, even if many (most?) of those many are hesitant or even afraid to say so publicly, even if they voice their frustration and fury only in the privacy of personal e-mails and private conversations and Facebook pages, lest some others in the movement verbally pummel and ostracize them for daring to dissent, lest they get sucked into the high-emotion drama of arguing about it with (and being mocked and dismissed by) its defenders.
And of course, we have plenty else to be disgusted by in the world of so-called animal advocacy. One of the biggest “WTF?!” moments for me and many others last year was not only PETA’s horrifying “Save the Whales” billboard but also Newkirk and PETA’s defense of it following the uproar. I flipped my lid over that billboard and non-apology. It was my last PETA straw. And I see zero substantive difference between PETA’s billboard and the Skinny Bitch premise and language.
So I was perplexed one morning this week to see a post from one of my successors at The Previous Blog seeming to separate the two into acceptable and worthy of praise and absolution (Skinny Bitch) and nonacceptable and exploitative (PETA and Biggest Loser). (Aside: For the record, no, I don’t follow that space. What happened behind the scenes still stresses and upsets me enough that unpleasant feelings bubble up every time I see a link or go to the site. So I tend to avoid that blog, catching only a tiny fraction of the posts, even when I am catching up on my lately neglected online reading.)
The writer claims that she can’t bring herself to watch The Biggest Loser because it’s “dehumanizing” and involves contestants being “screamed at and berated by their skinny trainers,” and “the show perpetuates the stereotype that fat people are lazy and gluttonous”; she’s so offended by the program for these reasons that she just can’t bear to watch. But then she goes on to make excuses for, sing the praises of, and downplay the issues with Skinny Bitch, which does exactly the same thing! She doesn’t think Biggest Loser trainer Bob Harper, who’s recently gone vegan, should promote veganism via fat-shaming and beratement, but it’s okay for the Skinny Bitch authors to do it? Why? Because they’re women? Because, however they push their message, their concerns are primarily for animals rather than for health? Uhn-uh. No way. Absolutely not.
The blogger does acknowledge that the Skinny Bitch authors have received flack and in a wishy-washy way seems to disagree with one of the book’s premises – that vegan=skinny — but it’s hard to find any real critical examination of the book’s strategy and effects (all its effects, not just the ones the writer sees as positive) in the surrounding gushing about the book. The writer “loved” the book and seems to think that the fact that some of her friends went vegetarian or vegan after reading its information on animals absolves it of all its misogynist tone, sizeism, shaming, perpetuation of stereotypes, reinforcement of cookie-cutter beauty standards, and shameless exploitation of women’s insecurities and fears, some of them damn dangerous. If some people doing what the authors hoped for absolves the book and authors of the abusiveness and exploitation they’re employing, then why doesn’t that same justification, in the writer’s mind, apply to Biggest Loser and all the contestants who’ve lost weight and become healthier as a partial result of what the writer describes as the show’s beratement and shaming? She also takes issue with a cringe-worthy comment from McDougall about fat vegans, while — again — glossing over the reality that Skinny Bitch’s intensely abusive, name-calling language and approach are no better.
“But we’ve reached some people! And look at all the attention it’s getting!” is the same justification that PETA uses for its sexist, exploitative, problems-perpetuating tactics and campaigns. That doesn’t change the fact that a large number of people are also so turned off and hurt by the tactics that they don’t hear — or care about — the supposed central message and remain shut down to the message. If programs and orgs the likes of Biggest Loser and PETA don’t get to use the “well, it works for some people; the people it hurts and the problems it creates are just collateral damage” justification for offensive tactics, neither do approaches such as that of Skinny Bitch, no matter how much you personally may have enjoyed the book (though I’d say that if you did enjoy it without reservation, it’d be worth examining why), no matter whether the person on one side of you thought it was great and went vegan after reading it. The person across from you might have thought it was great too and tried going vegan and then stopped because “skinny” didn’t automatically result after all. And the person on the other side of you might have been open to a message full of respect and compassion and intelligence, but instead was so outraged — or triggered – by the book’s approach that she not only discarded it (and its message) but is now hostile to the message and messengers in general, particularly given that she sees in the vegan world so much praise for and so little public criticism* of that book that so offended and hurt her.
Just pretending a problem isn’t there doesn’t change it, nor does any potential likeability or good intentions behind the problematic end result. Several months ago, on my private Facebook page, I remarked briefly on my disappointment that a group was aligning itself with the Skinny Bitch franchise, and a self-important, seen-and-be-seen, apparently straight, white, all-around-privileged male in the movement spoke up in outrage that I was daring to criticize. The thread ended up including multiple women, vegan and nonvegan, expressing their concerns with, objections to, and personal experiences with the book while one man told all of them that they didn’t know what they were talking about — and followed up the condescension with remarks about their mental health. You see, he’s friends with the author; he knows she’s a good person; unlike us, he’s somebody (an “insider,” he explained; he conveniently glossed over that, at least at the time, I was an “insider” hearing daily from mainstream readers and potential vegans too), and he had heard from many people who liked the book; and thus, all these women who were expressing concerns about it were just “angry,” uninformed, and “crazy” and should keep it to themselves. HOLY FUCKING PATRONIZING SEXISM.
Wait, where was I? Right — it doesn’t matter if the persons behind the campaigns are good-hearted with positive intentions. The ends do not justify the means, not when it’s a person or media entity outside our movement, not when it’s an animal organization that it’s now acceptable to criticize, and not when it’s a book and privileged author enjoying popularity and fame. Following is a copy-and-paste of my own words straight from the Facebook thread to which I just referred:
It’s not just about hurt feelings [in response to "I'm willing to deal with a little hurt feelings if that means the movement gains the patronage of an entire new demographic"]. It’s about perpetuating sexist, hurtful notions that have real consequences for real women. It’s about real women’s struggles, some of them quite serious. . . . The animal rights movement doesn’t exist in a vacuum, and for as long as we pretend that it does, there will be entire new demographics we *can’t* reach because they see us as so hurtful, oblivious, and single-track. The animal rights movement I want to be a part of embraces all battles for social justice, opposes all oppression, and doesn’t feel that it’s OK to cut down and dismiss one group to help another.
And regarding what we have patience for [dude didn't have "patience" for my criticizing someone in the movement], what I have little patience for is refusal to critically examine ourselves. If we in the movement don’t keep a critical eye on our own movement, on our strategies, on what works and what hurts, who will? Those of us who point out problems do so *because* we love and are dedicated to this movement and community. I find the idea that we should never disagree, that people should sit down and shut up, that those who aren’t famous or popular aren’t allowed to express their point of view quite dangerous.
It’s okay to disagree even with those who we think hold the power, folks — and to maybe even be disliked by them if they can’t accept dissent or disagreement. We’re not in high school anymore. And we’ve behaved as if we are, operating in cliques and silently deferring to supposed leaders or celebrities while downplaying the value of our own contributions and perspectives, in so many areas, for long enough.** We’re better than this. We have to be better than this.
And specifically, if we want to reach women and help nonhuman animals and women? Maybe we start respecting both of them. Maybe when we talk about the complex inner lives, emotions, and experiences of nonhuman animals, we remember the complex inner lives, emotions, and experiences of human animals too — and advocate with that in mind. And maybe we stop being afraid to speak up when we see something in our ranks that we know is wrong.
*Scroll down for an excerpt from a post where a feminist animal-rights-advocating, social-justice-promoting vegan didn’t hold back and for links to other relevant posts as well.
**Aaaand that’s another post entirely that I’ve been promising and sitting on for a year.
From Lagusta, at Resistance Is Fertile, a year and a half ago (the editor in me forgives the misuse of “literally” because, hey, she got angry and said what needed to be said):
My blood LITERALLY boils when I think about how a misogynist book like Skinny Bitch is being peddled so hardcore at animal rights people—my people! My people, selling my other people up the river. My people, who (used to?) talk big talk about interconnectedness and how animal rights gets to the root of problems like social injustice because when you have enough compassion to see how animals in our society are treated it trickles up into a more just world for everyone—is that animal rights world gone?
Because no one else seems to be screaming about it, so I guess I have to, right now, very loudly, in order to get it out of my system so that I don’t fling the damn truffles at the Woodstock Farm Animal Sanctuary people on Thursday when I go deliver them:
TRUE PROGRESSIVES AREN’T ALLOWED TO PICK AND CHOOSE OPPRESSIONS! YOU MUST WORK TO END ALL ENTRENCHED, INGRAINED PREJUDICES IN TANDEM, BECAUSE EACH ONE—RACISM, MISOGYNY, SPIECISM, ALL THE REST—REINFORCES THE OTHERS.
Handful of additional links:
- “The PETA Effect” from Vegan Feminist Agitator (May 2010)
- “Skinny (White) Bitches” from Vegans of Color (Feb. 2008)
- “Must Accessibility Mean Partaking in Other -Isms?” from Vegans of Color (Aug. 2008)
- “I Don’t Buy It” from Resistance Is Fertile (Jan. 2008)
- “Ask not ‘Are Animal Lovers Sexist?’ but ‘Can Animal Lovers Be Sexist?’ (Answer: duh.)” from easyVegan.info (March 2010)
Like this:
Trackbacks
- Dear PETA, We’re Awaiting Your Apologies « Animal Rights & AntiOppression
- Offensive Billboard Coming Down, But Did PETA Learn Anything? « Animal Rights & AntiOppression
- Animal Interrupted | Masked Avenger and Animal Rights Blogger » SOME THOUGHTS ON ‘SKINNY BITCH’ «
- Intersectionality ‘Round the Interwebs, No. 23: lolz the douche away » V for Vegan: easyVegan.info
Stephanie Ernst
Marji
Kelly G.
Deb
Mary Martin
Ah, this is so lovely and fierce! It’s so refreshing to be reminded that our anger can be a force for good, that criticizing those who are ostensibly on the same side as we are can be an act of loyalty. I refuse to accept the narrow-minded idea that it’s okay to help one group by harming another. When we do that, we ultimately harm ourselves as well. I absolutely agree that we are all better than that, as you say, and that we should strive to be even better as we learn more about interconnected oppressions and ways to compassionately reach others. I wish this dialogue was more open, and live in hope that it will eventually become so.
FOR REAL. That’s all I can really say in comment. I feel your pain. I also feel it in the opposite direction with many of my meat eating radical acquaintances. It happens everywhere. Just keep bringing it to their attention.
I try to remember that I have also made my mistakes through being blinded by my white privilege in the past (and I am sure still today on some things). We’re all gonna mess up. Just keep the dialogue open.
Excellent post! THANK YOU for saying this!
I read parts of Skinny Bitch before I became a vegan. I had a friend who was an on-and-off “vegan” who owned the book. She, admittedly, struggled with eating disorders. Her and the book were my first impression of “veganism” — though I cringe to call it that now.
Thank goodness I finally did learn about veganism, but for the longest time I did associate being a vegan with having eating disorders and trying to stay thin. I know others do, too. After I first went vegan, I remember overhearing two girls talking about another girl off on the other side of the room. They were wondering how she stayed so thin and one mentioned that maybe she was a vegan and then the other said, “Oh, I’ve been meaning to try that to see if I can lose some weight”! I butted in and told them that I was a vegan and would be happy to help, but that it’s not just some weight loss diet. Well, they seem less interested then, especially as I’m not so skinny, but I doubt that they would have turned and stayed vegan just for the weight loss (especially since, as we all should know, veganism isn’t just about food).
Even my husband has gotten flak from family because he did lose weight, though a lot of it before going vegan. Of course, his family blames it all on going vegan and keeps urging him to not lose anymore and they say how worried they are about him doing this “vegan diet”. (His BMI, by the way, is over 22 — he’s not even close to underweight.) They say this, of course, with me standing there and overweight (though I’m slowly losing, it is a bit of a struggle).
Bottom line, it’s not enough to spread awareness of the word “vegan”. People are spreading misinformation and confusion to sell books and it’s not helping. Many people now think that veganism is just another gimmicky weight loss diet. I’ve had people tell me that they can’t go vegan because they’re actually worried that they’ll get too skinny and unhealthy! There are many “vegans” who don’t even know that it’s about being against animal exploitation. It is very clear to me that on a practical level spreading “veganism” through weight-loss books does more damage than good.
And, from a feminist perspective (and just caring for people in general), the tactics used are absolutely disgraceful. I try not to let it bother me personally, but it’s hard not to feel like I’m somehow a “failure” as a vegan because I’m not slender — like a bunch of those people writing those books would rather me not go out in public because I make veganism “look bad”.
So, again, THANK YOU for being a voice of dissent.
Thank you for this post, so brilliant, clearheaded and abso-fucking-lutely CORRECT I can’t believe that there’s even a debate around it. Proof positive if you needed it that misogyny still exists. I remember that Facebook debate, Stephanie, and I retain my disgust with that entitled, smug, brown-nosing, SEXIST jerk. Second, I just wanted to add something: I grew up in a “dysfunctional family” with alcoholism. Do you know the message my brother and I repeatedly got? Do not admit to it. Pretend that the obvious is not really happening. Put on a happy public face. Stop being selfish! I am a grown up now: I refuse to be complicit in abuse by pretending that it doesn’t exist for the supposed good of the “movement.” These are tactics designed to silence us. Screw that!
THANK YOU! I have been blogging a lot about sexism in the AR movement recently but have not incorporated anything about fat-fear and weight hate and I am grateful that you are making this connection for us. Not only is our movement fat-phobic but we are also aggressively hateful regarding the issue. The way this phobia is tied to misogyny is an added layer of abuse.
I am grateful you are pointing this out and giving us a call to action. A comment of someone’s facebook page regarding a post I wrote about Meat is for Pussies informed me of the following bullshit:
“The biggest problem with the feminist movement is people who can’t lighten up. It’s hard a for a movement to gain steam when there’s a Debbie Downer hanging around dissecting everyone’s speech, sucking the fun out of everything anyone does or says. If you really want to advance animal rights, human rights, and so on, stop being offended about the slightest things, roll with the punches, and make some humor out of it.”
His inability to recognize that sexism is “sucking the fun out” of trying to fight for the animals for a lot of people is saddening but normal. ahhh…
gawd, I hate the title of that book alone
and to that asswipe who thinks feminists are always downers: it ever occur to him that there’s a lot of reason for it? oh, but right, I forgot women are not supposed to express dissent. it’s not feminine.
shame on us!
vegina – can I just say how silly smiley your name makes me? Brilliant, for serious.
Just wanted to agree with everything being said…thanks for your post.
As a person who has watched the Biggest Loser (the whole most recent season, although none of the previous ones), I can say that yes, you are pretty much right on track. You get so swept up (as a viewer) in the drama and spectacle that you truly begin to care for the contestants, and forget how appalled you were in the beginning of the show. The two trainers have quasi-violent methods for getting the contestants to push themselves into true physical pain, as evidenced by their on-camera screams and the off-camera teams of doctors and health professionals standing by in case of an “emergency.” This, in combination with the eating-disordered behavior advocated for the show (contestants work out more than 6 hours a day on the “ranch” and are encouraged to eat, depending on their size, gender, and other factors, about 1,000-1,500 calories a day) is scary enough, but then, in each episode, the trainers (who, as far as I know, are not trained or certified psychotherapists, psychologists, or psychiatrists) link the contestants health issues with low self-esteem, depression, family issues including enmeshment and codependence, etc. etc. and then, when the contestant is pushed so hard during a workout that they begin to truly cry and quit, the trainer follows them and talks to them about their “problems,” so that they can truly be “fixed.” All this, from the looks of things, convinces many viewers (as evidenced by the most recent season’s contestants, who were all long-time viewers and spoke this belief multiple times) that the only way to end their extreme obesity and save their lives from Western lifestyle diseases such as heart disease and diabetes is to submit themselves to the torture of being a contestant; no other method, from dieting to exercise to any other “quick fix” weight loss technique, has worked and so they believe that without the screaming bootcamp-atmosphere of the ranch and the trainers, they will never succeed. In this vein, the trainers and show “people” have written multiple books and have multiple websites with paid membership that provides calorie counters, meal plans, exercise plans, etc. in addition to selling everything from pedometers to protein powder.
Just wanted to give you some information and say that yes, you’re pretty much right. It does “change lives” (one of their catchphrases), but it does so with the tactics of anger, “violence,” and many disturbing mainstream assumptions about the nature of obesity and fat people as well as what it takes to be “thin/healthy.” And by the time you get to the finale, you’re so amazed at the transformation that you often forget the tactics and simply find it “inspiring” until someone else with less addicted eyes gives you a nice slap in the face.
Wow, that’s disturbing. Thanks, Julia, for offering this information and perspective.
Thanks for the description of the show, which I have never watched in full. In her book “Whipping Girl: A Transsexual Woman on Sexism and the Scapegoating of Femininity,” she makes a comparison between the sensationalization of obesity (via “Extreme Makeover”) and that of transsexuality. Why are both sensationalized? Because they fixate on physical transformations by which the audience is to be shocked that a single individual could cross certain seemingly impenetrable boundaries – from ugly to beautiful, from man to woman.
Whoops, I meant to say Julia Serano’s book.
I would say that as AR activists we shouldn’t peddle things like Skinny Bitch to people. However, I read the book cover to cover and don’t necessarily think there’s anything wrong with it. The book takes a tough love approach to weight loss and some people do need a tough love approach in order to get motivated. The book gives all right arguments for going vegan but isn’t all that compelling. It’s obviously a book written for middle class white women and for the most part only middle class white woman bought the book. I don’t think the books existence really helps or hurts veganism in any way but aligning ourselves with it does make us look silly.
I actually thought the PETA Save the Whales stunt was funny. It bordered on inappropriate maybe, but I think a lot of people are take PETA way too seriously. Much of what they do is very tongue in cheek (like suggesting the Pet Shop Boys change their name). I would usually expect worse from PETA. I seriously doubt that this one move by PETA turned any people off who didn’t already hate PETA.
I think our problem is aligning ourselves with these groups. Our next problem is wasting too much time talking about why these groups are bad. I see so many blogs bashing PETA moves when it’s already obvious the writer is anti-PETA (they may write about it at least once a week for example). I always think, why not use that time to advocate for animals in a more effective way? Why not go leaflet or write a letter to the editor or write a blog that actually encourages people to go vegan? There is certainly a place for meaningful criticism about advocacy techniques but it shouldn’t be all we write about.
I used to be quite over weight myself and I have to say a billboard poking fun at fat people and a book that suggests I’m being lazy wouldn’t have been the things to bother me. Weight is more complicated than laziness and gluttony but not exercising and eating too much are the biggest factors. So what if a book points that out?
most people do not view peta stunts as tongue-in-cheek. While they spend enormous resources flying people all over the country for protests like naked women wrapped in plastic to emulate carcasses (and this is not done to make a point about meat and sexism, but rather to make people leer) — the responses, judging by at least my local alternative paper — show that most people do not understand what’s going on. It’s just another stunt by peta where men can ogle women as objects to be visually consumed. I live in Asheville, North Carolina, with a population of around 75,000. The fifth vegetarian restaurant (and most of the veg restaurants are heavy on the vegan options) just opened. Yet when people saw this peta stunt the comments in the paper were all about “yum I’m getting some hamburger” and shit like that.
PeTA’s stunts are not effective. They may well be, as Stephanie mentioned, counterproductive. When I lived in conservative Knoxville TN and did some circus protests, before people would even look at the fliers the first question out of their mouth: “are you with peta?” Granted, it does take a closed mind to make that your determining criteria as to whether you’re interested in learning about an issue; then again I don’t really have much faith in the intellect of circus-goers.
I hate being told to lighten up. As I wrote this post I don’t know how many tortured animals across the world just died. It’s a terribly serious issue and PeTA seems to me to care less about animals than about PeTA itself (I don’t think this applies necessarily to everyone who works there, though).
There’s room for humor in our movement but not, I think, surrounding the issues. Try making a joke about human slavery or wife-beating. It’s just too serious to laugh about.
I do not in any way support PETA. I don’t really know if they do more good than bad or more bad than good. They do get some people to go vegan but they also make a lot of people think vegans are a bunch of idiots and they reinforce stereotypes. Still, I’m not surprised when a semi-mainstream group agrees sides with the main steam i.e. sexism, poking fun at fat people.
I dislike PETA but I don’t see the point in criticizing the group constantly. If people already understand that members of one blog or group disagree with PETA then reminding them of it time and time again is just a big waste of time. Yes, I hate when people associate me with PETA because I’m vegan telling them once that I don’t support PETA/think PETA is full of idiots is enough for me. Frankly, I have a bigger problem with groups like HSUS and ASPCA who reinforce the idea that cats and dogs are worth saving and other animals are not.
I just wish we would all spend less time criticizing others and more time actually making efforts to make change.
I just want to point out that it’s important to have these conversations (and to “criticize” when that’s called for) as part of effecting change. If we don’t have these conversations — and have them publicly — all the people who are so offended by such tactics and who do lump us all together with them never have a reason to question their assumptions about who we are and what we stand for and what animal rights and veganism are about. We need to work through these issues and work toward change for the sake of change itself when tactics are causing harm to others, but potential vegans out there also need to see us having the difficult conversations and see that we don’t all take the approaches or share the opinions that are hurtful and alienating to them. We can’t stay silent if we want to reach and connect with those people.
YES YES YES! Thank you SO much for another installment of your usual brilliance, Stephanie. This post summed up what I’ve been thinking and fuming about for a long time now. We can’t just pick and choose which oppression we fight – ALL oppression, all violence, ALL OF IT, is interconnected.
I do want people to stop eating animals, but I also want women to stop being demeaned, harassed, insulted, and belittled because of their appearance. And you know what? I don’t really think those two goals are mutually exclusive. We can do better.
As a (formerly, hopefully) self-important, (also formerly, hopefully) seen-and-be-seen, apparently (as far as I can tell) straight, white, all-around-privileged male in ‘the movement’–and someone who is (was? I don’t really really go out of my to keep in touch/hobnob) friends with the author and knows she’s a good person, may I say that the ‘insider’ you have every right to criticize that guy. What a clueless jerk. A big part of his problem is clearly that he views himself as an ‘insider’ in the first place (that he *wants* to be an insider). Another big part is obviously his vast ignorance of the privilege he exhibited in reply all the witnessing he had occasion to read but failed to comprehend. This ‘movement’ needs fewer people like him and more people willing to accept criticism, think critically, learn from mistakes, and fight injustice in all its forms.
For the record, friend, the superficial “seen and be seen” characteristic that I attach to this person, in the way I’m thinking of it, is not something I can imagine ever associating with you (and that’s a compliment, in case that’s not clear). And a “hell yeah” to your last line.
Thank you!
I had an experience at AR 2008 in a rap session. I posed the question of how we remain a united front when organizations like PeTA are so hypocritical. My concern, I said (but not quite so eloquently), was that there are definitely things worth criticizing and that those being criticized routinely turn blind eyes and deaf ears to concerns espoused by other committed activists.
I was at the time referring specifically to PeTA’s eagerness to use the services of Dita von Teese to promote animal birth control. My concern was that she wore fur. I wondered how PeTA could actually use her, and why they didn’t use Star Jones or someone else they hate who wears fur?
The response from PeTA was that von Teese’s fur is “vintage.” Riiight, because animals who were caught in traps 20 or 120 years ago, whatever your definition of vintage is, didn’t suffer. Good, thanks for clearing that up.
At the conference one girl who worked for PeTA (but was not there as spokesperson) told me that when Dita von Teese comes knocking on your door wanting to help you don’t turn her away. Whaat? Another woman said that if not for PeTA she probably wouldn’t be vegan.
I have never denied that PeTA USED to be a good organization, but I have been pissed at them for the past 13 or so years, sending letters and making calls (remember the commando chicks? when I asked why no commando cocks went around half-naked to food stores PeTA remained uncharacteristically silent).
For me the tipping point was their KKK stunt a year or so ago.
In any case, thank you for posting this. I am soooo tired of being associated with PeTA, and with PeTA acting as if they are the only true animal rights organization in the country, as if somehow being professional paid activists is more legit than those of us who have to work a job we’d rather not do and do our activism after work in our spare time.
I can’t understand why they don’t take our concerns seriously and why they don’t give a shit.
Fwiw, I had a “sit down and shut up” experience at a rap session last year too when I dared disagree with some of the more vocal folks in a room. So I know how jarring (and infuriating) that can be. I feel for you. I kept thinking I was going to write about it, but I haven’t yet. Famous last words.
Well when you get around to it I’d love to read it :)
I should point out that I had at least one woman defending my position, trying to clarify it for others, and I think a guy or two, and Harold Brown was the facilitator and he was awesome about it, too.
It was just the general perception that because peta was once good, and because it does help turn people to veganism (or has in the past) it is beyond doing wrong.
But please write about that rap session when you have some time.
:)
“when Dita von Teese comes knocking on your door wanting to help you don’t turn her away.”
HUH? Why not? This is a great example of PETA’s constant and scattershot celebrity-trolling.
I have another. Recently I was staying in a hotel (which explains why I was uncharacteristically watching trash TV) during an AR conference and saw an episode of that Kardashian reality show. PETA approached one of the sisters out of the blue to be in their “I’d rather go naked” campaign. She was totally confused, and quite properly. (“Why me? I’m not an animal rights activist/vegetarian/whatever.”) They just went after her because she was famous, so they showed her some shocking fur footage, got her sympathy, and flattered her into doing the gig.
Clearly PETA doesn’t really care a lot about who they use/exploit in their ads. The point is to get attention and make a splash. They’re not philosophically consistent, unless you count the exploitative use of female bodies in protest against the exploitation of animal bodies to be a philosophy.
I’m not the greatest fan of PETA, well it’s a US based organisation so we don’t hear much about it here in Ireland… but regarding the use of celebrities, even if they aren’t vegan/vegetarian it IS going to work to some extent. I know it seems hypocritical and (pretty much) insane to use a ‘role model’ that actually knows nothing about animal rights on a billboard/poster – but it IS going to get the message across to some people. These will be the sorts of people who wouldn’t really ever go out of their way to research into animal rights/veganism as we do. They need something else to catch their eye and draw them in. Hell, I bet there’s a lot of people out there now who are vegan whose awareness stemmed from ad campaigns such as these. The fact of it is, sadly, in a celebrity-endorsed world, this is a sure-fire way of reaching the masses. It’s not the way it should be, but it is. I am against in-your-face veganism and activism as it seems to turn people off more than encourage them to try something, so a lot of PETA’s work seems a bit extreme to me, but… if it’s going to raise people’s awareness then that’s a good thing.
As regards the Skinny Bitch thing, I have read the book and I quite like it. Of course, it shouldn’t be a book you turn to in order to find out about veganism, it’s more of a weightloss book. I don’t really see a problem with the language and the tone – most people need to be shouted at to get off their butt and do something about their weight. I’ve been both under and over weight so I can speak from the perspective of people of both sizes – there’s a difference between being shamed into losing weight publicly on TV and CHOOSING to read a book that shames you into losing the weight in private. Skinny Bitch puts across a lot of good, valid points, and if people read this book and take on board at least a little of the information then the world may start becoming a better place. I don’t think we should be having a go at anyone for the reasons they become a vegan – be it because of a celebrity advertisment, a fad diet, a weightloss book – the main thing is that they are cutting down use of animal products and taking on board at least some of the points these books and campaigns are conveying. I think we have to accept that there are a lot of people out there who will never give up meat or dairy, we cannot change everyone no matter what tactics we use (whether subtle or extreme), all we can do is try to raise their awareness a little more. Even if they don’t stick to their new fad diets which were spurred on by a celebrity or a weightloss book, they will hopefully have picked up a few valuable messages along the way that will in future encourage them to at least buy more healthy food, more soy products and fewer dairy, and if they are going to buy meat maybe they will think more about where they buy it from.
“YOU MUST WORK TO END ALL ENTRENCHED, INGRAINED PREJUDICES IN TANDEM, BECAUSE EACH ONE—RACISM, MISOGYNY, SPIECISM, ALL THE REST—REINFORCES THE OTHERS.”
Hell to the yes.
Wonderful post. Brilliantly written and the anger/rage is, IMHO, liberating.
Haven’t read Skinny Bitch, although it was recommended by a good friend who is already skinny and a vegan. Haven’t watched much of Biggest Loser and mostly ignored the Save the Whales campaign. PETA lost me with the “I’d rather go naked than wear fur” campaign nearly 20 years ago. And, their policy on feral cats and TNR was more than enough for me not to support anything they do, or listen to anything they say.
Having been fat for all but about 2 or 3 years of my 60 so far, I’m very familiar with the prejudice toward all things fat. It’s the last bastion of predujice. However I frequently mention that I have so many strikes against me in a patriarchal world: I’m a woman who is fat, smart and left handed. Oh, and never married and have multiple cats. I just don’t let those things stop me. Unfortunately most women aren’t as persistent, single minded or stubborn as I am. It’s refreshing and uplifting to read what all of you strong, smart, compassionate and dedicated women write. Keep up the superlative work!
Oops, not so smart on my part. It’s prejudice, not predujice. Duh!
Right on! I used to feel so alone about this stuff but this post says everything I’ve ever wanted to hear. You can’t end one form of oppression by perpetuating another!
Thank you, Stephanie, for another elaborate post.
It is disappointing to see that mainstream, conventional measures of success – fame, a celebrity readership, and especially (inter)national sales figures/being a “#1 New York Times Bestseller” (a German translation of Skinny Bitch was published with the same title and i guess it was published in many other countries and languages as well) and hence financial profit – are used by so-called ‘established leaders of the movement’ to justify the quashing of any dissent and criticism. As part of a minority one would hope they would question and challenge conventional notions of power and authority.
As someone who at age 34 can look back on roughly 20 years of weight problems i read the English version of Skinny Bitch – and the side issue that for me, the meal plans and lists of allowed foods would not be sufficiently restricted to actually lose weight is not decisive for my disapproval, it adds to it though.
What is essential for my condemnation of the book is the utterly speciesist (starting with the title), misogynist, abusive language which makes it virtually unbearable to read, the insincerity and the lack of a logically consistent, morally stringent, animal rights-based argument for ethical veganism.
There is no need for dishonesty when one is promoting a comprehensive stance against all oppressions and their interrelations and common causes.
Excellent, wonderfully written post. I love it! Thank you, thank you, thank you!! You just said so much of what I feel that I can’t seem to put into words.
Thanks for all the thoughtful and insightful (and often flattering) feedback, everyone. It’s encouraging to see, here and elsewhere, people having these conversations and challenging these issues. You all rock.
Great post Stephanie!
I just wanted to add a couple of points- Skinny Bitch is not only insulting; it contains nutritional errors and suggests tons of processed food.
And to the man who called women who complained about Skinny Bitch crazy- jerk face! I hate the use of the word crazy to dismiss people’s thoughts and concerns. It is an ableist word and as a person with bipolar disorder it really bothers me when “crazy” is used as a perjorative. “Crazy” is used to belittle and ignore dissent because “crazy” people are less than and their opinions thoughts and feelings are not worthy of consideration.
Great post, Stephanie, and thanks for the quote! I do think, though, that if I’d gone to a doctor while in the state I was in when writing that blog post, I would definitely have been diagnosed with Boiling Blood Disorder. ;)
Thank you for this. I am not a skinny vegan. Besides that, I don’t like the book or what its author has to say. I don’t know if she still does, but she had an advice column in VegNews for a while and she usually had at least one thing per column that I thought was either shallow, offensive, or bad advice. She spoke at a TAFA conference last year or the year before, and while I understand that her intentions are good, and she seems like a nice person, I feel that she became a success prematurely—before maturing in her veganism. I think that she is riding on a high of “life is beautiful and I’m beautiful because I’m a skinny, rich vegan, and you can be, too” and she’s never had the chance to realize that in order to be a good advocate, she has to acknowledge that her path and her luck cannot necessarily be emulated by other people from different walks of life.
I am so happy this blog isn’t affiliated with PETA. It is nice to have a site that isn’t involved with PETA to share with my friends and family. Thanks!
The fact is, it’s healthy to be fit and (healthfully) thin. It IS more attractive, like it or not – for deeply biological reasons. People are motivated to lose all the excess. Skinny Bitch just tells them how. They make the point that it’s easy to be thin if you’re vegan and eat good food. People want to know how to lose weight. I understand that outright *obsession* with one’s body, just like obsession with status, money, fashion, what car you drive, and what-not, is harmful, and I appreciate your wanting to stand up for women, in particular, who hear enough about their looks as it is. But our society is ASKING, wanting to know, how do we lose weight? How do we get back on track? Do you want to leave it to people like Atkins to tell them?
Liev, I love you but I have to disagree. Eating vegan doesn’t mean one is going to become thin. I haven’t read the book, so I can’t comment on the kinds of foods the authors tell us to eat, but someone mentioned that it’s a lot of processed crap — exactly the most unhealthful, pounds-adding kind of junk out there.
I’m not saying that there aren’t people who won’t (possibly) jump on the bandwagon if they think that veganism is going to make them thin, but their reasoning for becoming vegan suggests then that they’ll be among the first to start eating dead animals and carcasses again.
And I know we live in the kind of society that thrives on drama, and telling people that they’re for whatever reason, never good enough (every single ad on TV tells you that you can be better at something, whether it’s cleaning the house or eating or losing weight or getting the proper pair of fashion shoes, implying that how people *are* in any given moment is never ever good enough. Create an air of always-wanting and you have created a culture of consumption desperate to get to be like the images of people on TV). That there might be a market for what a book like Skinny Bitch seems to be says in very unflattering ways what our society is, not what it could and should be.
I think veganism in its truest form — which is beyond just eating vegan — is a window to how our world should be, and that’s why things like this irritate me. They take the easy way out, they cater to the lowest common denominator and feed on people’s fears and insecurities.
Personally I like skinny boyish women best, but I would never turn down a date or anything from a curvier woman ;) There are plenty of people attracted to larger people. Granted, there may be health issues associated with being severely overweight, just as there are health issues associated with severely underweight people. What one person thinks is attractive sometimes amazes her friends ;)
But I love ya, Liev! I hope I don’t come across too harsh here. I really hate the established code of what passes for sexy.
Veganism is not a weight-loss diet plan; it’s an ethical stance. And compassion for our fellow creatures shouldn’t have to be back-do0red in through an appeal to people’s desire to be “attractive.”
Could we please have one post on the internet where a discussion that disapproves of anti-fat rhetoric doesn’t derail into “but thinness does = health! And thin is more attractive!” (which will entail numerous followup comments trying to back up that assertion, with an ever-decreasing scope that necessarily limits itself to those cases in which those assertions are demonstrable.) I for one am not interested in having that discussion over and over and over.
@Liev
As a vegan that DOES eat well (mostly whole foods, little in the way of refined carbs or added fat), I can say that being a vegan does not automatically make weight loss “easy”. It may make it easiER for some, for a variety of reasons, but there are plenty of overweight vegans out there, too.
And as Lu pointed out, yes, it is an *ethical stance*, not a weight loss diet — or any diet. It’s no more a diet than Orthodox Judaism is a diet. What we eat is only a small part of being vegan. And to approach it as a weight loss diet is to trivialize the greater meaning of veganism, that it is a stance against all animal exploitation because it is the right thing to do.
Stephanie,
You know, Skinny Bitch is really short and easy to read. You could pound it out in a couple hours. I don’t understand why you can’t be bothered to actually sit down and read the entire book before trashing it. You’re a writer! Give other writers the respect we all deserve – a thoughtful, careful reading! Go ahead and trash it after you read it, but at least do everyone the courtesy of actually READING the entire book.
As I said in the post, not putting myself through the blood-pressure-raising, energy-draining experience of reading the book cover-to-cover was a conscious choice and, frankly, not one I feel the need to defend. I’ve read enough. I wouldn’t feel the need to read the entirety of a book written by a right-wing bigot to comment on disgusting extracts from it either or to be entitled to an opinion on that person’s general approach and language. Furthermore, this thread and other posts elsewhere are full of commentary and reactions from women who have taken on the full reading, so it’s not as if this “trashing” as you call it is simply a result of my not having endured the whole thing. And you may feel I owe the authors the “courtesy” of reading it (though I can’t understand why you think I owe “everyone” that courtesy), but considering the lack of courtesy the book itself shows for women and their various experiences, bodies, and so on, we disagree.
I see your point, Stephanie, but Elaine is right too: it’s a ridiculously quick read. I read it in about an hour standing up at stupid Barnes & Noble just so I could more effectively hate on it!
Thank you for this article. You’re right : having these conversations – publicly – is very important. For a long time, I’ve been asking myself if I had a problem with PeTA, or if they had a problem. All the vegans I knew were comfortable with those stinky campaigns, supporting them and thinking they were “amazing people doing a great job”, and that we, anonymous little vegans, didn’t have anything to say about PeTA that wasn’t laudatory. I felt hurt by their aggressive campaigns, and also because I couldn’t understand why other vegans (who were AR vegans) couldn’t make the connection between AR and feminism (and other causes).
Nowadays, I don’t feel hurt anymore about that – rather disturbed. I know that I’m not alone, and that they have a problem.
I could say the same about feminism and veganism : before becoming vegan, and truly thinking about feminism, I was asking myself : “Well, do I have a problem ? Or is the world having a big problem ?” But when I found out that there were other people thinking the same, I felt reassured.
Looking forward to reading you,
Camille.
I stumbled upon this site while searching for some agriculture/animal information and hope it’s ok for me to add my opinion. I am also a writer with a few books. When one of my books is reviewed, I assume the reviewer has read the book. However, I’ve noticed that I find myself rather put out when reviewers read my books less carefully than I’d wish and make rather silly errors in the review. If Stephanie were to read Skinny Bitch, she would probably read it quickly, perhaps carelessly, and most definitely with a preformed opinion. As it is, she freely admits in this criticism that she has not read the book. I find that honesty refreshing. She could have lied and claimed to have read the book and I doubt any of us would have been any the wiser. Since she admits upfront that she has not read the book, she leaves the reader the option of accepting this entire post wholeheartedly or with a very large grain of salt. So, in my opinion anyway, I have no problems with Stephanie having not read the book.
However this entire post and comments piqued my interest (and there were no direct excerpts for me to know exactly what language Stephanie is referring to) so I followed Lagusta’s lead and trudged over to B&N and settled down to read this myself. Unfortunately I’m not as fast a reader as Lagusta so I was no where near finished after an hour of reading but within two paragraphs I saw the tone and language was one of flippant insults. Fat, lazy, pig, and then of course my favorite: “coffee is for pussies.” So this tone and language has become mainstream. Back in the 1980’s when I was working my way through college in no end jobs I heard this language in the frat houses and at my work places all the time. The term ‘bitch’ was used constantly. If a guy really wanted to insult another guy, he would let loose with a string that went something like this [you may not want to read this but I’m not exagerating ]: “You fucking cunt, pussy, fag, bitch….” In other words, you are the worst thing I can think of: female. I tried to explain to my co-workers why this language was insulting but they always responded with a nonchalant, ‘that’s just the way people talk.’ I noticed that the same tone and language that the Skinny Bitch authors use became common in certain magazines in the 90’s starting with Maxim and other mags of that ilk but now you see it in very mainstream men’s magazines like Men’s Health or Muscle & Fitness. And now, apparently, in New York Times Best Sellers that are aimed at women. And written by women. Surprising. Also appalling.
On the other hand, I thought—and I did read very quickly—that there was a lot of good information in the book. Unfortunately, that information is presented in this insulting way. And I must say, if I were not already a vegan, the description of the slaughterhouse and the quotes from slaughter house workers would certainly make me a vegan! Oh. My. God.
Well, as has been pointed out, I am an exaggerator. I’m sure I didn’t read every word in that time, but I gave it a mighty good skim. And 2u4u, I felt the exact same way: the language sickened me. I know we weren’t the book’s audience (I’ve been vegan 17 years) but I just can’t believe that the mainstream world loves to be insulted that much. The proof is in the book sales though, I suppose.